EG #16: Bull Riding & Interviewing
EG #16: Bull Riding & Interviewing
Parallels in unexpected places
Reframe
When interviewing, it’s easy to think of the situation as a competitive them versus you event. Ride the bull for long enough without getting thrown off and you get the offer. In reality, you’re working together. Trying to figure out if you match in a given time constraint. You want a job that improves your life in some way. Mostly with better pay.
Managers want you to be the right person. Think about what their experience is like.
Reviewing 200 resumes that start to look the same after number 20.
Interviewing X people to find out who can back up what they advertised.
Narrowing the field down to a few contenders.
Using your internal credibility to get an exception approved for salary.
Hoping no other company comes in with a competing offer in the meantime for the person you want to hire.
There’s a lot more nuance to hiring than simply getting the funding. Show you understand this.
As a job seeker, play to your audience: the hiring manager.
Don’t paint yourself in the typical corner of thinking you are the audience. The conversation ends up being more work for the hiring manager to pull information. Not a good foot to start off on. Think about it like this:
Person A: Asks what you’re trying to accomplish & talks about their specific, relevant experience. Share what they’ve seen, how it worked out, and what they’d do differently this time. Adds in any new information, technique or technology that applies.
Person B: Gives an overview of their experience and expects you to drive the conversation.
See the different energy here?
Person A is looking to collaborate and sees their own value.
Person B is making you dig their value out of them.
Keeping in mind the time constraint, who is making a better impression?
Make it easy to hire you.
Not only hire you, but pay you well for your specific expertise.
It can feel like you hold no power in the interview situation. But you do. You just need to recognize it. It’s harder to see if you’re not immersed in interviewing & hiring everyday like me.
Good managers need good people to work with them so you both continue to move up in pay & scale. And if you go into the conversation as a collaborative problem solver, you set yourself apart from most people who are looking to share an overview and wait for questions. Increase the surface area for luck to find you.
Reframe your approach and notice what happens.
NYC
Madison Square Garden “The world’s most famous arena” hosts all types of events. Locals here call it MSG or The Garden.
Where else in the world could you see Phish one weekend and Professional Bull Riding the next at the same venue?
I’ve seen a Killers concert, NY Rangers hockey games, and NY Knicks basketball games at MSG before. Then professional bull riding came to town from Jan 6-8. It was wild to see the space transformed from a concert stage, to a basketball court, to an ice rink, and now to this big dirt surface with a series of gates in maze-like formation. Check out How MSG transformed for Professional Bull Riding .
Not just any bull riders, but the top 35 riders in the professional world to be exact. I knew nothing about bull riding, but love seeing people committed to excellence at the top of their game.
Usually, I’d Google everything about an event before going. What seats were best for the venue, what people wished they knew the first time they went, & what to expect in general. Reviews, rants, raves. Helpful to know, but with strings attached. You’re then seeing through someone else’s frame of the event.
What you might not have noticed or cared about is now noticed and cared about.
Taking confirmation bias to a new level. This time I decided to test a new approach and go without the usual prep work. With true beginner’s eyes.
What if anything would change?
I found that prior approach, while comforting psychologically to know I’d covered all angles, wasted time. I enjoyed the experience with less information up front. Not expecting anything meant there was only one way to go.
Up.
And up those bulls went. Tails swatting, hind legs kicking, horns butting.
The object of the competition is for the rider to stay on the bull for 8 seconds without touching anything but air with his free hand while the other hand is gloved and roped onto the bull like a handle. Incidental touching of the bull with the free hand while you’re being bucked results in no points as we found out after a video tape review of one ride. Rough.
Seeing cowboys decked out in fringed leather last the full 8 seconds on bucking bulls rose to performance art. A symphony of balance, strength, & flexibility. A study in stoicism.
Most riders couldn’t do it, which made those times the bell sounded celebrating a successful result that much better. You understood. The bulls kicked incredibly high with their hind legs, whipped riders off with their tails, and butted with their horns. Spit flying in slow motion on the big screen for all to see. Then the bulls would trot off as if on command like nothing happened, right back into a main pen area. All except for the bull named Maverick who took a victory lap around after defeating the same rider 3 days in a row.
The bulls were treated and referred to as animal athletes, with names ranging from Dennis the Menace to Big Worm. Scores were given to both the bull and the rider. The more the bull bucked, the higher the rider’s score. Just like in an interview, the highest scores come when both sides work together to put on a good show.
The danger was immediately made clear when the fifth rider to go fell off and had his head stomped on by a bull. Thankfully, he wore a helmet with a steel caged facemask and a heavy looking protective vest. We were all relieved to see his thumbs up, signaling he was ok.
After one round of general competition, the riders went to the championship round. Pared down from 35 hopefuls to 12 contenders. Each rider chose their own bull to ride. The hubris was palpable.
Does the 20 year old phenom in first place, the Rookie of the Year, Bob Mitchell, choose the biggest, baddest, toughest bull or go for an easier win? He had the first pick of all 12 bulls. Bob’s lead remained intact until the 11th rider, Jose Vitor Leme, knocked him out of the top spot with a thrilling ride on his bull, Dennis the Menace. Jose even stuck the landing when dismounting for effect, instead of the usual flop & roll of the other riders.
Now it was Bob’s turn. The announcer asked us to stand & set context for the moment. He shared that this was the biggest ride of Bob’s career so far. Everyone cheered, readying their phones to film. I hoped for magic. Unfortunately his bull, Renegade, lived up to his name.
You’ve got to love a city where this is even possible. It was the biggest crowd the Professional Bull Riders will play for all year. They even sold MSG out for the show on Saturday night. That’s the thing about NYC. If you want to attract a crowd in real life or meet other people on top of their game too, the city is the natural place to make that happen in person.
Running
When racing, the crowd support takes the experience to a new level. Much easier than slogging out 20+ miles on a normal training run in Central Park with your own internal encouragement. I didn’t realize how true this was until running Big Sur in April last year. It’s the most beautiful run I’ve ever been on. It felt surreal. Like a movie set.
But because of the narrow roadways & cliffs, there is no room for spectators other than a few people here and there who come out from their homes to cheer.
We finally saw our family & friends at the finish line. Compare that to a typical NYC marathon where friends and family are spread out in 4 different locations throughout the race. It’s like searching for an Easter egg in the crowd each time. Making your feet feel lighter. The effort a little easier. The smile a little bigger when your eyes connect.
Until they are out of view again. There’s always a part of the marathon course that takes you through an industrial looking section of the city, void of people and beauty. Usually around miles 18-20, where the dreaded “wall” can make an appearance. The point at which your brain starts to doubt you could finish and your body starts finding excuses to stop. It makes all of those times you see people feel that much more special.
Seeing people and feeling their support makes the journey worth taking.
Inspiration flows seamlessly back and forth from the runners to the crowd. We all need to know that what we’re doing matters to someone else.
Let’s apply this to work.
You’re the runner.
Your team is the crowd.
You have a set start and finish line on a set course on a set day that needs to be finished within a time limit.
Your team gives support at specific spots on the course as you go.
You work together, feeding off each other’s energy to fuel the journey.
Feedback is essential to keep going. If you don’t feel support on either side of the equation, performance suffers. If the runners see a crowd staring at their phones disengaged, it takes a bit away from the experience. If the crowd is cheering loudly or holding out hands for high fives without acknowledgement, it diminishes their experience.
If the interviewer or job seeker are disengaged or only one side is showing interest, it diminishes the experience.
If the crowd is not showing support for the riders and the riders aren’t showing thanks to the crowd, it diminishes the experience.
Show people support and if you stop feeling support, say something. It’s usually not intentional but can start the feel that way if left unchecked.
How many people stop showing up after feeling unappreciated?
I can’t read minds or intentions, but I bet that percentage is greater than zero.
Think about your contribution to the crowd, your team.
Acknowledge & appreciate the good you see when you see it. There’s already plenty of critics ready to pounce on the negative & dunk on other people for sport.
Give good energy & get good energy.
The most important things are understanding both points of view and working to deliver a good experience together, independent of the outcome.
You can have a good experience interviewing that didn’t result in a job offer.
You can watch a good bull ride that lasted under 8 seconds.
You can finish a race over your ideal time.
You co-create the experience.
Let’s keep moving.
See you next week!
Jen
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I read everything.
This is fantastic advice, Jen. I made the same mistakes Person B made earlier in my career because I didn't know any better. For a long time, I saw interviews as one-directional. I didn't start landing jobs until I treated interviews as mutual matching opportunities.
awesome points in the opening - Person A helps write the narrative and collaborates, while the other simply fields questions. great advice